Inquiry

I would like to see more material and reports about the dark nights of the senses, soul and the self; and not only those, but also the "dark nights" of vertical development (the transition periods between levels of ego development or center of gravity; more articulated).

So, how did you live through your dark night? Which one was it? How many dark nights did you have? For how long did you experience dark night? Could you please describe your experience? And what meaning have you brought to your experience afterwards? How did your perspective change after you moved to the bright side? How does shadow work correspond to living through the dark nights? Many questions, I know.

I'm interested in the justification for requiring money for life guidance. This question is tentative at this point. Below Ill will explore some thoughts that lead up to this question. When I get a better grasp of why I asking I'll probably pose a more formal inquiry. I also understand that perhaps alternative solutions for providing support for infrastructure in a capitalist economy have not been explored. This is not only directed and the Integral Institution either. This is been something that has been bothering me for years in regards to the requiring money to provide life guidance. This is my first attempt at asking out loud these questions to an institute that claims to provide.

When I ask money for "enlightenment" I think I am treading shaky grounds. I introduce a element of doubt into my motivation & integrity and a possibility of systematic corruption if my support comes through a organization.

The proliferation of self-help books, snake oil sales men, and false prophets throughout the ages are a indication of people's deep need or want of some sort of healing. The demand meets the supply. So when I come into a town hawking my tiger balms and snake venom to cure your deepest ails...only 4.95 a bottle...I expect to be met with wary eyes by some keen minded skeptics. They've seen this song and dance before. What am I to do though? I have a wagon to maintain, ingredients to buy, mouths to feed. I could give a way my product for free, and if they aren't a scam, rely on donations from my grateful, and now healed, patients. But what if they scam me? What if they take my healing and leave me starving?

These are good questions. I think that in providing physical healing they are pertinent. No "higher" mind state is advertised. So healing a thieves festering wounds provides no assurance that the thieve wont run off afterward. However this is bit different when I am offering "spiritual" advancement. I would hope that if my product is genuine that part of what came in the package would be a greater degree of accountability and responsibility. And in this accountability and responsibility would come a reciprocation of support to the structure that helped with the attainment of these levels. In other words receiving support would be a natural outcome of my product working.

I know its not necessarily about spiritual advancement but I think Wikipedia is a good example of a service that has provided such an indubitable good service to the community that it has never had to require fees and been able to easily maintain itself with donations from satisfied members.

Another thing that concerns me is the inherit classism that comes with asking for funds. The question comes up of whether It should be expected of me to be in a certain social/economic class, or for that matter, participate in capitalism in order to receive "spiritual" guidance? And if this is expected what, if any thing, does say of the guides?

There is a possibility that I am missing something obvious. Hence, the question. What is the justification?

There is possibility that you are missing something. Hence, the feedback and the question. What is the justification?

Thanks,
zaq moser

ps. When I quote above it is because I dont yet know the terminology used to translate out of my mind to wide or intergral audience and I dont want to accidetaly step on any toes or seem to be trying to hijack terminology already in use.

--

http://www.c4chaos.com

Athletes of all levels can have the peak experience known as "the zone," although it doesn't happen as frequently as they would like; at least not for extended periods of time. What does happen is that athletes will get in the zone and suddenly witness themselves performing at a dramatically higher level while experiencing a higher-order state of consciousness.  It's as if this altered state of consciousness descends upon them out of the blue and they immediately start performing at a much higher level.

-- I'd like to explore the question: "What is Integral?" Is integral basically the same as Ken Wilber's AQAL map, or is it an emerging structure-stage of consciousness that can take many different forms and is in some sense still "to come"? Is it the capacity for advanced perspective taking, a basic committment to psycho-spiritual growth that transcends the true but partial perspectives of traditional claims to truth and meaning... Or is it the solution to the world's problems... in a dialectic that will one day run into its own limitations and contradictions... maybe Integral has no simple or fixed definition, because it's contours and patterns of thought and action are still being layed down... Or is the meaning of Integral simply the means of its enactment - i.e. something we do?

Cameron

 "Become passers-by" (Jesus of Nazareth)
 

How would you personally apply whatever you conceive of as second (or more if you dare) tier, or, post-conventional reasoning and ethics, to the following?  Answer as though you really have the chance to give some advice (people can pick and choose what works for them) (these questions are broad, so take just a piece if desired):

  a.  Presidential voting decisions, incl. activities of different time commitments beyond the vote.

  b. What each person might do (how to process this internally, and then, what possible actions) when they're depending on someone, whom they think is "operating out of shadow"?  (or, someone could break down this question into smaller ones)

  c. How you experience subtle consciousness and body, incl. questions and doubts (mine is always:  is this genuine?)

  d. "Higher" development = deeper and broader.  What does that mean to you?

  e.  What kinds of questions does this make YOU want to ask?

OK, so it wasn't one question, really. 

Happy to be here,

Joanne

While Integral theory works towards transcendental exploration, it completely overlooks the integral nature of bereavement, grief, and the dying process.  This is unfortunate, but it appears that we get lost in the theory of development without looking at the one thing, the common denominator, of all living organisms.  I am very curious about how the community experiences dying, death, grief and loss within the integral construct....

Namaste -

 Christina Zampitella, Psy.D.

  Integral transhumanism? To what degree do you think Ray Kurzweil's predictions could be true? What are the primary motivation for mainstream transhumanists? And how do integral transhumanists differ from them?

How do you differentiate a person who desires to transcend shackles of human limits because s/he hates the bodily confinement vs. someone who realizes the empty nauture of the true self and thus is not identified with the particular human form?

  I personally think cognitive line goes all the way up and all the way down without the necessary need to touch on spirituality. (depending how you define it of course) That's why, imho, in the far future, there will be secular humanists who go far beyond turquoise and not identify themselves as spiritual. (but they of course, are likely to be philosophical)

What is the major probability wave of Kurzweil? At times, he indeed seems philosophical. But at other times, he could be too techno-deterministic and only focus on right-hand quadrants.

What do you think? Ken and Ray Kurzweil?

--

To see a world in a grain of sand....

I'm actively working with students at JFK University on 1st person perspectives of healing.  The subject is quite relevent and rich.  So I'll open it up to the integral community. 

"What meanings do you associate with your experience of healing?"    To be clear, I'm not talking about when you are sick, I'm asking about the change from sickness to health--healing,  as you experience this change, how is it meaningful?  How do you understand this experience?  How can we learn from healing?  How can we grow our healing capacity for our own and community benefit?

I'll be posting some of the stuff I've found on my blog. 

Be well!

Joel

Is attending to awareness or "I Amness" an important practice for you? What techniques or skillful means do you use to let go of being absorbed in ideas and thoughts in order to rest naturally as Awareness and allow everything to be 'just as it is'? Is it simply a matter of where we place our attention and the "listening" or receptive quality that allows Awareness to reveal itself?

As one of the original late 80's early 90's Gen X'rs,  I certainly know the bitter taste of meaninglessness and depression that comes with too much irony and rejection of traditional values.

Yet I also think an authentic, post metaphysical spirituality isn't possible without a great ability to cut through the crap.  

It's just that left to its own devices, deconstruction is the great destroyer.  

Have any of you had to make choices in your life to limit or balance or adjust your ability to deconstruct?

-- Would love to see some video, or an actual demonstration of the 3-2-1 process in action. As crucial as shadow work seems to be, think it is truly important to give people a concrete example so they might get a feel of how to walk through it with a bit more skill. One thing to read about it and try to implement as part of our daily lives. Another thing entirely to see it in action...

Erik W. Knapp

Personal growth (from ego to ethno to global) is only possible when the right circumstances are there. So many people are just struggling to survive every day. So I think it is also important to reflect on how to reach out to those people, how to create favorable social circumstances for personal growth for groups in society who didn't have the chance to go to college or have a nurturing family, etc.

So my question would be: how can you create possibilities for personal growth for socially disadvantaged groups in your own community?

 SuzanneK.

Where are the 'Kosmic Grooves' located? Are they located in all four quadrants? (The LR our Social structures in architecture and industry. The UR in the actual physical make-up of the human organism (as well as all other organisms). The LR in the literature and shared meaning-making symbols. The UL the noosphere or, a trans-human subjective field of some kind). What do ya'll think?

Hi all,

Being new to this site and still figuring it out and what should go where, I'm realizing I started an inquiry in the "wrong" place:  integrallife.com/member/larry-kiehl/blog/got-conflict-1 and would like to bring it here into the "Inquiry" section of the site, not sure how to best do that other than linking to my blog post.  If anyone knows of the mechanics of how to move it here, please feel free to inform me.  Thanks.  Otherwise, I guess we can just leave it as is.

I need an IOS ENCYCLOPEDIA!!!!!

I need to look up a term, see a one paragraph overview, a 1-3 page quick description, and finally, an in-depth explanation that will be as long as it needs to be comprehensive.  With links to other terms that have links to other terms, etc...

I cannot describe how fundamentally important I think this is!!!!!  It should be a top priority to develop.  No Ken Wilber book will be as important as this!!!  Are we to trust in and depend on Wikipedia to do it for us?

For example, where do I go to look up 4th, 5th or 6th person perspective?  Where do I go to look up turquoise level?  What if I need to explain something specific to a friend?

--  I am curious if there are any Integral Occultists besides myself out there!  My spiritual journey began with Occultism by studying Qabalah and Thelemic Mysticism, the works of Aleister Crowley.  I will be the first to admit that within the occult community, an extremely erroneous pre-trans fallacy is only the beginning of the problems inherent in the practice of modern occultism and ceremonial/ritual magick.  But as Ken is fond of saying, I think the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater when observing and judging the merit of occultism and its practices.

     I also have a background in Eastern Medicine and Esoteric Korean Subtle Body Practices based on Tai-Chi, Ki-Gong, Meditation, etc.  I am an avid reader of both Ken Wilber and Sri Aurobindo.  I practice Bikram Yoga, and I am a practicing occultist.  I believe western occultism and ceremonial/ritual magick to be simply one of the many ways in which human beings have expressed their transformative capacities, and in the best cases occultism has been approached with the same scientific rigour that the most puissant forms of meditation systems in the east have.

     My question to the community is if there is anyone else out there engaged in this kind of work?  As well, does anyone believe in this as a valid sphere of inquiry to contribute to the Integral Community?

Timothy P. Bielec

aoiveae.luiahe@yahoo.com

exst.art.officelive.com

I've personally had experiences that have felt as if someone was touching me with invisible fingers that moved waves of energy around inside me.

There have been times when such experiences have lead to illuminating dreams.

I would like to hear other peoples experiences and opinions, partly as an opportunity for them to share their subjective view of spiritual experiences, but also from my more objectively inclined aspects to get a sense of how grounded these types of experiences are within the world of scientific inquiry.

I have done some investigation on Dr. William Tiller, professor emeritus at Stanford University and his work on psychoenergetics. Wilber includes Tiller on chart 2B in Integral Psychology.  Dr. Tiller acknowledges each of the domains in manifest reality as matter to body to emotion to mind to soul/spirit. He also acknowledges internal development and the strengthening of one's "internal infrastructure" to manifest more spirit by means of meditation and practices like Qi Gong.

In these fascinating videos where Tiller is interviewed, he discusses having created a device that "allows us to measure the energy level of a conditioned space above our normal background reality," which will ultimately evolve into a biofeedback device that will essentially measure the Chi flow in and out of the body. This new understanding of physics will bring about a Copernican scale revolution in science as it uses consciousness to connect these distinct energy levels and realize enormous potential in the manifest domain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d35l5Kxg7ik                                  : PART 1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kmgEQN4xro&feature=related    : PART 2

I would be fascinated to hear a discussion between Ken and Dr. Tiller on these higher energetic domains and their role in the future development of technology that assists with internal development. I would love an Integral discussion on this issue as Dr. Tiller opens up quite a fat can of worms.

--

"At the end of our exploring we'll be to arrive where we started but to know the place for the very first time."
-T.S. Elliot

 If consciousness is the modality by which we can travel, how do I ensure a safe passage and complete trip?  If I send out a triangular shape, will I know ahead of time what shape to accept for its around the world trip?  Is discernment the same?  How much unconscious becoming conscious is necessary before I set an "evolve" pace?

By a case study I mean some author who goes through a holon in its entirety not just talking about the worldspace of one quadrant in that holon but giving a description of that holon from every quadrant--theoretical, detailed, practical--sing Integral tools to do an Integral analysis of that holon.  I feel like we all could (or at least I could) learn a lot from that.

Also, what would be great on this website is to start a Wiki.  Let a collaborative effort begin at some level.  It could be in the form of a database of vocabulary--something that I have already started on my own to avoid total confusion as I have learned.

I would also like to see a more representational balance of all four quadrants in the work of Integral philosophers.  I recognize that perhaps the majority of the Integral community came from the Descended side of the path but it seems like the community is overemphasizing spirituality at the expense of the other three quadrants.  Why this concerns me is that I feel like there are probably a group of "rational" folks who are turned off by this because they don't understand that in fact there is nothing at all that is non-rational in the Integral approach.  As Wilber says, spirituality has been associated with the amber meme and rationality with the orange meme.  Thus,  many rational people who may be ready to journey into Integral may first need an entrance to Integral through the two right hand quadrants as they gradually begin to understand the depth of the Integral approach.

As a psychologist working with people who live in constant fear and doubt, a change has begun in how the treatment proceeds. There appears to be a downflow into the physical space of palpable energy that assists the patient in developing new insights. They seem to move into a different dimension which is characterized by spontaneous understandings related to the ongoing problem. Be it depression, panic, or obssessive behaviors. As this energy makes itself available, boundaries of their physical body fade. I am only holding space without trying to analyze. Their mind I quiets along with a feeling of heaviness.

I would like to hear from anyone who might be experiencing similar energetic changes during a therapeutic session.

I would like to see inquiry about pain and suffering.  It seems that all inquiry has it's roots in  the pain of the loss of connection to True Nature, or the Lover longing for the Beloved.  A blog at clarityliberates.com has inspired this inquiry for me.

I'm curious on whether implementing the Integral approach on communicative disorders such as stuttering, will yield better results in that field. I've read a personal account of someone who said that his stutter was practically cured from saying certain mantras. The root cause of stuttering has yet to be found, I think, and an exploration as to how and why such practices work, along with its already established techniques, would be perfect for an Integral inquiry into its field.

The question I want to ask you is; What words will be most effective to help us personally and socially identify and publish our states of consciousness?

Two stories to clarify the question.

First story: There are four of us sitting at the table talking, indubitably about Integral Theory, and one of us says "Wow, I just regressed, I'm sorry about that." We all then notice that ,boy, there had been a change in our social state, something was different.  We noticed it but only when one of us chose to recognize their own change in state did the rest of us notice the change in the group state and how it affected the conversation.

Second story: As a group facilitator, I noticed that I admired other facilitators I worked with who had the awareness to facilitate every group they were a part of.  Any time we were meeting, eating dinner, etc. as a group of facilitator's, these people would be constantly, effortlessly facilitating. Torbert (2004) would call this "action inquiry." I wanted that ability!  It felt so good, so present, so....aware.  And so helpful.

I am recognizing that the ability to be aware of and label a state and watch our states change in our moment to moment lives is a joyous and valuable ability. To then be able to bring that up in a group context is even more helpful.  I'm doing it.  And some other members of my community are doing it.  Yet we stumble on how to label these states.

We first try calling them Gross, Subtle, Causal, Non-dual or Toria and Toria Tita from the buddhist tradition.  But those are too broad.  We then struggle with words to communicate the experience and the effect to the group. We are looking for a better categorization of states that might help us more quickly and definitively communicate our changes in state.

One place we've turned is Stephen Wolinsky (2002) who identifies different dimensions (states) of consciousness. He then helps us de-label these states so we focus on the the gestalt of the experience; where we feel it in our body, how it feels, how it makes us think, etc. While it is tremendously helpful, we still need clear concise labels to effectively communicate our states with each other.

So the question again is: What words will be most effective to help us personally and socially identify and communicate our states of consciousness?

Can we re-assess the role of mytho-poeic literacy? Is myth really relegated to a particular stage? What role does the imagination play in relation to the world? Are they separate? Should we relegate our models to a linear "pre-modern/modern/postmodern/postpostmodern" definition, or might this be a little misleading? In short, I'd like to see the integral community actively explore and engage an "integral gnosis," or metaphysics. :)

--

 Mu!

I'd be interested in reading/watching an analysis of the implications of the oil spill with regards to Integral Ecology. Thanks.

G'Day

I have two inquiries.  The first is probably simple.  I have been listening to Ken's "A Deeper Cut".  Several times he has referred to the updated version of his book, "Transformations of Consciousness".  My question, does anybody know when it will be released?

Second inquiry.  I am wanting to explore some deep shadow work and would like to find both an Integral psychologist and a bioenergetics practitioner.  Does anybody know a good source I can start to explore to find such practitioners?

Thanks, Shane

Hi, 

I would like to see a special section on this site in which people could amplify their personality profile by including their own "20 tenets" etc.  I've tried this in my own profile section but I think people would check each other's lists out very readily if a structure existed for it.

Everybody finds, in numerous engaging conversations, that they end up making a lot of the same points.  These are their points.  We need to capture & affirm the spontaneous contributions that everyone has to make.  

And by articulating, if we wish, we can gain a new level of perspective on the character that we are presently animating. 

By limiting it to a certain number of points (possibly as an homage to the Wilbersaurus' 20 Tenets) we offer people the chance to evaluate, prioritize and modify their own "integral persona" as a "source of wisdom position".  The variety of insights people have is extraordinary and there needs to be some overt method of inviting and sharing one's standard integral positions and one's tangential (and possibly post-integral) positions.

We could all really benefit from this.

I know, it's not exactly in the inquiry section but it is a kind of mutual investigation.  Plus the inquiry section is clunky to access and tends to fall by the wayside.  I want to click on anyone's 'name' and find out if they have any interesting 'characteristic assertions' which can complement, challenge or expand my comprehension of the worldspace we are co-creating.

Sound good?

Thanks, I've been...

Layman Pascal